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Fore-sight

Poll
Question: How do you see the economic reprecussions of the hike in gas?  (Voting closed: July 06, 2008, 11:29:32 am)
Serious advancements in getting 'green' - 3 (27.3%)
Government bending to the needs of the country - 1 (9.1%)
Dramatic increase in crime - 0 (0%)
Things'll be tough but otherwise okay - 3 (27.3%)
the Greatest Depression - 4 (36.4%)
Total Voters: 11

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Author Topic: Fore-sight  (Read 2842 times)
melamphoros
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« Reply #30 on: July 08, 2008, 09:05:33 am »

I understand that, but it is an argument I've had before on and of this forum. I've been told they're supposed to be called the Major Greek Pantheon or the Olympians, and I've gotten very tired of worrying about it, and especially of arguing about it.

I never heard the term "Major Greek Pantheon" before so that could explain why I thought you got the wrong term.  I heard of the term "Major Greek Gods" but that category could include deities not normally listed as Olympians such as Rhea or Persephone.

Quote
Are they usually called the Olympians here? I've not really had a lot of conversation about them here.

You're right in that there hasn't been much discussion here (that I know of) but I can remember at least one conversation where Olympians were used.

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And I'm very sorry if it came across as rude, it was late and I was tired. I'm sorry if it came across as harsh, sorry, Melamphoros.

I know, I was there, remember Wink  You didn't seem too rude.

And I wasn't looking for an argument and for future reference I normally don't Smiley
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« Reply #31 on: July 08, 2008, 09:53:39 am »


I hold no stock in attempting to predict the future ills or fortunes which may befall you, or society, in the future, I’ve done it. There is nothing on this earth which could convince me it’s a worth while pursuit for anyone less than the stark, raving mad, or attention hungry. It will only frustrate any attempts at one’s own abilities to enjoy what time we do have upon this planet.  It was at one point, until very recently, it was a major part of my life.

if you are trying to control the future by just seeing it, yes, that's a very frustrating and silly pastime. When I do divination, the future presents to me as a set of possibilities, none of them are absolutes. There are many threads, many tributaries, that all lead to whatever it is that you are trying to see, and my or other people's choices almost always screw things up, or at any rate change them some. I always think of looking at the future, particularly the deep future, as trying to use field glasses to look around the bend in a river-sometimes you can see a part of something that you need to know about, but until you get closer you it's hard to tell if it's a boulder in the middle of the stream, or the edge of  a waterfall. You can make some very good guesses, you can inform your choices by getting an understanding of what's ahead, but ultimately you can only act in the moment you're in as best you can. But that hardly makes divination a worthless pursuit. It's an excellent tool for choice making, and self-analysis, and yes, future prediction.
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« Reply #32 on: July 08, 2008, 11:09:49 am »

if you are trying to control the future by just seeing it, yes, that's a very frustrating and silly pastime. When I do divination, the future presents to me as a set of possibilities, none of them are absolutes.

I was mainly focusing on trying to predict major events as the OP had begun this thread with.

As I stated before I still do use divination occasionally, when I already have a good hunch and want to verify something I may have been mulling over. (Read: I have too many Tarot Cards/Pendelums/Runes/Dice... to let them sit completely unused.)  Grin  I do however have a serious problem with trying to plot your whole life according to the cards, I think instead of acting as a guide, and starting point for other aspects of spirituality and self-awareness they can easily become a crutch, which allows for little to no spiritual growth.

I do strongly believe that divination into current events, family issues, finacial problems, and internal moral/personal issues, is a very powerful tool, which can be extremely beneficial. But, in my experience, using it to try and plot a course for your life is frustrating and typically results in deconstructive behavior over time.

I think this would be a very interesting thread on it's own, spin-off anyone?

You're right in that there hasn't been much discussion here (that I know of)...

Probably means we should discuss it...
Is it just me, or do the hellenics tend to be a little quieter about personal beliefs here on TC?


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melamphoros
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« Reply #33 on: July 08, 2008, 11:35:17 am »

Probably means we should discuss it...
Is it just me, or do the hellenics tend to be a little quieter about personal beliefs here on TC?

I think it would probably best to save the discussion for the main board when it gets back up.  Besides you and I there are only three Hellenics active on the back up board and one of them doesn't normally participate in religious discussions.

As for Hellenics being a little quieter, I can only guess.  I think that compared to the rest of the forum, Hellenics are a small percentage and of those about half are probably regular posters.  And you've got to figure that some people are just a bit private when it comes to their practices.  AFAIK, you're the one who discusses their personal practices the most.
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« Reply #34 on: July 08, 2008, 11:50:23 am »

I think that compared to the rest of the forum, Hellenics are a small percentage and of those about half are probably regular posters. 

And of those who are active, several are staff, which doesn't mean we don't participate in religious discussions, but it does mean that we've got to spread our time here out over more things and thus maybe don't focus on our particular religion as much as we otherwise would.  (And while this is a possibility with any staff member, I suspect it's particularly true of Randall, Lyric and myself, all of whom happen to be Hellenic.)

On a related note, I think several of us who are active are also long-time members who just don't have many ideas for new discussions about Hellenic religion.  We've been around for a while, here or elsewhere, and it seems like everything we think of has already been done.  If anyone's feeling the lack of Hellenic threads, I strongly suggest starting discussions when the board comes back up.  I suspect there would be interest, it's just that some of us aren't coming up with ideas for that kind of thread.

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And you've got to figure that some people are just a bit private when it comes to their practices. 

That too.  I tend to be pretty private with mine just out of insecurity over my own newbieness.  I've been doing this for a few years now, but I admit I'm still sort of afraid that if I speak up too definitively on something, it'll turn out I've gotten some crackheaded notion stuck in my head and I'll wind up horribly embarrassed to have said something so stupid.  Grin  (I'm silly that way.)  So I tend more toward the "listen and learn from others' conversations" end of things on Hellenic topics than the "actual discussion" end of it, because I'm all too aware of how little I know.

...Usually.  Smiley
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« Reply #35 on: July 08, 2008, 11:59:59 am »

I think it would probably best to save the discussion for the main board when it gets back up.  Besides you and I there are only three Hellenics active on the back up board and one of them doesn't normally participate in religious discussions.


I agree...

AFAIK, you're the one who discusses their personal practices the most.

That honestly doesn’t surprise me, I’m a loud mouth, even in real life. Though because of where I live, South Texas (Or HELL whatever you want to call it…), I have to keep a pretty tight lip about my spiritual life. So TC is my only real outlet, besides a step mother who lives on the other side of the country.

I have a lot of my life invested in my spirituality, so that’s most of what I have to talk about, except for lousy teachers and my horses. I could have a whole book on my horses...  Grin
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« Reply #36 on: July 08, 2008, 12:03:31 pm »

I'm finding the Google ads amusing, btw.  In this thread, I keep getting a "Looking for single Greeks?" ad (complete with photo of ample, bikini-clad bosom).  Grin  As the text ads go, I'm somewhat bemused by the lineup I've got right now:  Three spell ads and one "Jesus Loves You".
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« Reply #37 on: July 08, 2008, 12:09:23 pm »

That too.  I tend to be pretty private with mine just out of insecurity over my own newbieness.  I've been doing this for a few years now, but I admit I'm still sort of afraid that if I speak up too definitively on something, it'll turn out I've gotten some crackheaded notion stuck in my head and I'll wind up horribly embarrassed to have said something so stupid.  Grin  (I'm silly that way.)  So I tend more toward the "listen and learn from others' conversations" end of things on Hellenic topics than the "actual discussion" end of it, because I'm all too aware of how little I know.

I've been the same way, and have come to the brilliant conclusion that if I never speak up and find out if I'm wrong, I'll be wrong forever...

I've always been very scared of doing anything wrong, because some one might get mad at me.

And I'm well aware that I'm wrong alot, ALOT. But you know what, everyone's wrong at some point and if they tell you they're not, they're wrong.
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« Reply #38 on: July 08, 2008, 12:12:20 pm »

I'm finding the Google ads amusing, btw.  In this thread, I keep getting a "Looking for single Greeks?" ad (complete with photo of ample, bikini-clad bosom).  Grin  As the text ads go, I'm somewhat bemused by the lineup I've got right now:  Three spell ads and one "Jesus Loves You".

I've got the Jesus one too, I think we should pay for an ad to circulate on Christian forums. I bet they'd get their panties in a wad over that, though maybe if we bitched more we could get their ads off of here.  Wink Or they'd just burn us at the stake...
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« Reply #39 on: July 08, 2008, 12:17:25 pm »

I've got the Jesus one too, I think we should pay for an ad to circulate on Christian forums. I bet they'd get their panties in a wad over that, though maybe if we bitched more we could get their ads off of here.  Wink Or they'd just burn us at the stake...

Why bother?

I just find it funny.  And, hell, if they want to waste their money advertising God (Because, y'know, a text ad on an internet forum is REALLY going to be what converts me), that's their time and money.

As far as conversion attempts go, it's pretty passive and non-irritating.  IMO.
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« Reply #40 on: July 08, 2008, 12:18:45 pm »

I've got the Jesus one too, I think we should pay for an ad to circulate on Christian forums. I bet they'd get their panties in a wad over that, though maybe if we bitched more we could get their ads off of here.  Wink Or they'd just burn us at the stake...

For some reason a google ad for TC on a Christian website sounds funny.  I haven't gotten the Jesus one yet but I have pulled up the afore mentioned "Greek Single" as well as spell and game ads a number of times.

Is it weird that I may miss them once TC is back?  Oh well, one of the other message boards I visit off and on has google ads.  I never paid attention to them, but given the nature of that forum they should be interesting.

P.S. Has anyone got the one for gay dating or does google somehow know that I'm gay and single?
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« Reply #41 on: July 08, 2008, 12:22:50 pm »

If you're talking about who is younger vs. older in terms of who was born first, I wouldn't think it's so much up to individual views.  I'd think the mythology would have something to say about it.  (To say nothing of younger vs. older in the sense of who shows up in mythology earliest, which of course is a question of historical fact.)  I don't know what that something is, but I don't think this is a question to be solved by UPG alone.  Who has younger vs. older attitudes or personalities, or who "feels" younger or older, might be another question, of course.

Completely forgot this from earlier...

I have never seen any real evidence of either one being older, but I'm not really as thorough about that kind of stuff as I should be.

And I'm sorry I didn't specify that I was basing who was younger on my personal views and feelings toward them, but that's what I was using to come to the conclusion that Ares was the younger of the two brothers.

Why bother?

Beause I deal with christians who are ignorant of their own religion every day, and I  appreciate having a chance to irritate the hell out of them any chance I get...

Plus it was mostly in jest... I'm running on too little sleep, so my sense of humor is a little off right now...

TO ALL:

   I'm off to find heat and caffeine, and work on my book review. Will probably swing back by later after I wrestle with the horses, 9-10pm...
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« Reply #42 on: July 08, 2008, 12:23:50 pm »

P.S. Has anyone got the one for gay dating or does google somehow know that I'm gay and single?

Google knows everything...  Cool

Okay, I'm really leaving know...
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« Reply #43 on: July 08, 2008, 12:24:04 pm »

P.S. Has anyone got the one for gay dating or does google somehow know that I'm gay and single?

I don't think I've seen that one, but I'll certainly be on the lookout for it now.  LOL
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« Reply #44 on: July 08, 2008, 01:01:58 pm »

I have never seen any real evidence of either one being older, but I'm not really as thorough about that kind of stuff as I should be.

I thought I read somewhere that Ares was Zeus and Hera's first child (or first son at least) but I can't seem to find a source.  I thought it could be on theoi.com but sadly it makes no mention.  In fact, the quotes cited doesn't make any mention of both of them.  Even on Hera's page Ares and Hephaestus were mentioned separately (although that's not surprising seeing as how it's a popular view that Hera conceived Heph without a father).

All I can tell when it comes to the four that sparked this discussion is that Apollo is older than Hermes who's older than Dionysus (i.e. the ones that mythology supports).  I think both Ares and Heph may be older than those three (they're certainly older than Dionysus as they are involved with stories of his grandparents).

*looks at Theoi again*

Yep, there is a story that Hera sent Ares to help torment Leto.  So he's older than Apollo.  Then again the myths contradict themselves so there well may be one that contradicts this.

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And I'm sorry I didn't specify that I was basing who was younger on my personal views and feelings toward them, but that's what I was using to come to the conclusion that Ares was the younger of the two brothers.

That's okay, no one is holding it against you Smiley
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